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Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« en: 08 Septiembre, 2011, 02:04:30 »
Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby

 "Well we ran some preliminary experiments on Friday with the Volcano. I will report these  findings with a caution that they are merely pilot experiments, to find our way only.
 Figure i put my foot in it by promising results, not thinking about the consequences that  the findings may bring. And now we're realizing that we may be opening up a whole new can of worms.
 
 Firstly, we have known for some time that the Volcano does not deliver all of the THC, particularly at  the lower settings, of around 5 and 6. We know this since we use high-pressure liquid chromatography  (HPLC) to measure the amounts of the most abundant cannabinoids, that are present in the sample,  before and after vaporization. By measuring the THC, for example, left behind in the sample carcass,
 we can determine the efficiency of the vaporizer setting, since we also know what we started  out with.
 
 Since this is a study of heating cannabis we must consider a couple of things.  One is that THC, plus the other cannabinoids, are not active as they sit in nature.  For them to interact with the THC receptor, firstly they must be de-carboxylated or activated.
 Meaning CO2, must be kicked off the parent molecules, that in the un de-carboxylated  form are acids, chemically speaking. De-carboxylation, in this case, is accomplished by heating,  which, in turn, excites the chemical bonds of the, for example, THC molecule causing it to release carbon dioxide at the weakest bond. This, subsequently, activates the molecule, allowing receptor interaction.
 
 If more heat is applied to the molecule, eventually it will reach its boiling point and enter the vapor state. De-carboxylation occurs before evaporation and over a broader range of temperatures. And is critical for understanding cannabinoid pharmacology. Therefore in vaporization we have a two-fold process occurring that allows the medicine to be delivered. De-carboxylation, followed by evaporation.
 
 When we run cannabinoids by HPLC we see the acids of CBD, CBN and THC, plus trace amounts of these already de-carboxylated cannabinoids (alcohols as they're called, chemically). We normally total the acids with the alcohols to come up with total THC, CBD or CBN for the sample.
 
 In the experiments discussed here we vaporized a cannabis sample that had already been shown to contain an unusually high amount of THC, with relatively high CBD.
 We ran three separate experiments at Volcano settings 6, 7.5 and 9. At each test, the same weight of cannabis was placed in the volcano and two bags vapped for the same time period. Following vaporization, the carcass (sample left behind), for each temperature setting was analyzed for the three most abundant cannabinoids.
 
 We will attempt to tabulate below our experimental results.
 
 
 Volcano Setting THC remaining mg/g CBN remaining mg/g CBD remaining mg/g
 
 Temp: 6 THC: 260 CBN: 0.05 CBD: 0.6
 
 Temp: 7.5 THC: 245 CBN: 0.05 CBD: 0.6
 
 Temp: 9.0 THC: 75 CBN:0.05 CBD: 0.15
 
 With all HPLC analysis there is an error window associated with the quantification. This window is normally acceptable if it has a coefficient of variation of 15% or less. This is simply a statistical evaluation of the standard deviation or variation around the mean, divided by the mean and a percent value taken.
 So with THC there is often an error window of plus or minus 2% around the measurement and for CBD and CBN this is more like plus or minus 0.05%. To convert the above results to a percent value, simply divide by 10.
 
 So, what do we learn from these results. Nothing about decarboxylation, since it's not presented here, although much is gained from observing the chromatography (not shown), where a one to one decrease of the cannabinoid acid and increase in the alcohol is seen. Nevertheless, in the table we are showing only the de-carboxylated actives that are left behind.
 
 As stated earlier, the cannabis sample used in this experiment tested particularly high in THC, running at 260, + or - 40 mg/gram. As shown in the table, this did not change for setting 6 on the Volcano and changed only slightly for setting 7.5. We only see a significant decrease in THC at setting 9. These results also confirm earlier observations.
 
 The boiling points of the three cannabinoids measured are as follows:
 
 THC 200 C
 CBD 190 C
 CBN 185 C
 
 We can see from our before and after sample, that CBN is virtually all gone at setting 6, leaving only residual amounts. The THC, however, all remains at this setting. As does the CBD. At setting 7.5 the THC is fully de-carboxylated, but still present to roughly 95% of its original value. Interestingly, at this setting the CBD is only half de-carboxylated.
 
 At setting 9, all three are fully de-carboxylated and have moved to the vapor state. A small amount of CBD remains as does some THC.
 
 We can conclude from these very preliminary experiments that with the Volcano at setting 6 all the CBN is gone along with the more volatile terpenes and aromatics. Yet at this setting, although the THC and CBD are being activated they have still not received enough heat
 to enter the vapor state. In addition, at setting 7.5, similar conditions hold, with the THC still not evaporated. It's only at setting 9 that THC receives sufficient energy to become volatile.
 
 That's it for today. And remember these results are preliminary. We will continue to conduct more experiments on the Volcano, next
 time focusing more on what happens to the CBD and at what setting."



"We did another experiment to six bags and behold, ALL IS GONE!!!!!!!  THC acid, converted THC, CBN and CBD, all gone skyward.
 This is at Volcano setting 7 and six bags were taken.  So between 2 bags, where virtually all the THC is still present,
 and bag six the THC is being boiled off. To 2 bags it's all terpenes and aromatics.
 
 Suppose, we will have to narrow it down, to see if there is  one bag where the THC, fly's, at setting 7. Bet it's bag 4.  We'll see..."



"We ran another experiment with the Volcano. This time we collected 6 bags at setting 6.  This just doesn't move the THC into the bag, only decarboxylating about 20% but not boiling  any off. Its aroma therapy at setting 6, very little, if any, active THC is delivered.
 Of course at this setting you will be blowing off the terepenes and other lower molecular weight  aromatics, that do, indeed, have psychoactive properties. Incidently, these compounds, termed the essential oils, have been banned, as long as the plant. It's my notion that the euphoric part of the cannabis experience is a result of the essential oils and not THC.
 
 Finally, i must remind that these are merely preliminary experiments, used to guide the way  to collecting more confirmatory data. All experiments of this type must be repeated a number  of times, with means and standard deviations from the mean, determined."



"We used roughly 250 mg or a quarter of a gram, in all the experiments. And bw2, that makes perfect sense, since THC boils at 200'C and it comes off in a bell curve, it would take a few minutes to boil it all off. You need at least 200'C to blow off the THC, 190'C, won't cut it, even after a few minutes, there's just not enough heat."

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Re:Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« Respuesta #1 en: 08 Septiembre, 2011, 02:09:42 »
Cita de:  John Berfelo
I work with Dr Hornby on theses test about 1 year ago, the strain was  GC.
 
 We did some more experiments with the Volcano, taking samples from various temperature settings and bag numbers. In all cases we are measuring the amount of the most abundant cannabinoids in a sample taken from the left-overs in the vaporization chamber. Since we know the mg/g amounts of THC, CBD and CBN in the starting material, we can determine how much of each cannabinoid has been "blown off", at what temperature setting and what bag number. I believe that earlier i stated that all of the active THC is not delivered until bag 4 at setting 7.5.
 
 In this set of experiments samples were prepared by a member assistant, according to a defined method.
 Here we investigated three other temperature settings of the Volcano: level 3, level 4 and level 8. At each
 setting 4 or more bags were collected.
 
 The sample used was a Kush with a THC level of roughly 150 mg/g. CBD and CBN both in the 3 mg/g range.
 These sort of values are very common here in BC and the profile very typical of BC cannabis.
 
 At level 3 we see efficient decarboxylation, so we know our sample is seeing heat, but not enough to send the THC skyward. This level is a good way of making an oral prep, from the carcass, since at bag 3 all of the THC is activated. But you would have to wait until at least bag 3 to get better than 90% of the THC in the activated form.
 
 Level 4 experiments were conducted the same as for level 3. With the same amount of cannabis (0.3 g) being processed and bags collected in the same time period. Level 4 is no more exciting in terms of lifting the THC to the vapor state and is simply a continuation of efficient decarboxylation of the THC-A to active delta-9 THC.
 Once again a bag 3 greater than 90% of the THC is activated, and less than 1%, blown off. Therefore breathing the vapors collected at bag 3, level 4, is at best aroma therapy, with very little active THC being delivered.
 
 Now we go to level 8. Immediately, at bag 1 all the THC is decarboxylated and roughly two thirds delivered.
 And at bag 3 80% of the activated THC is gone. So once again we make the observation that a level setting of 7.5, or above, is required for 3 bags to deliver activated THC. Lower settings, indeed deliver active medicine in the form of terpenes and aromatics, essential oils long know for therapeutic properties. I have often thought this is where the euphoric experience of cannabis lies in these, also prohibited, oils.
 
 Anyway, that was about $2500.00 worth of LC work to do that outlined above.
 We accept all donations to help support with this and continued research.
 Grow in Peace
 Dr. Hornby and research team..

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Voy a resumir la idea principal de la investigación del Dr. Hornby, y es que con el volcano, aunque me imagino que debería pasar con todos los vaporizadores, el THC se vaporiza principalmente a temperaturas altas, a partir de 200ºC y se aprovecha en su mayoría a 230ºC y llenando unos 3 globos. Dr. Hornby sobre el punto de ebullición del THC contradice otras investigaciones que lo sitúan en 157ºC.

Añado unos gráficos sacados del artículo de investigación de B. Pomahacova, F. Van der Kooy, and R. Verpoorte (2009). "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login" para sustentar las conclusiones a las que llega el Dr. Hornby. En los gráficos se mide el contenido del vapor a diversas temperaturas, y en el caso del cigarrillo, se mide el humo, como es lógico.
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Este último gráfico muestra el rendimiento total y el contenido de THC en muestras de diferentes tamaños vaporizadas a 230ºC
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Re:Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« Respuesta #2 en: 08 Septiembre, 2011, 09:49:27 »
Hola buenas :hi:

Gracias 9delta por la traducción, que yo de ingles poquito.

Probaremos con temperaturas altas a ver que tal.

Gracias

Desconectado juan1010102001

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Re:Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« Respuesta #3 en: 31 Marzo, 2012, 21:38:51 »
Hola!!
Esta claro que poniendo la temperatura al máximo se aprovecha mas pero las bolsas que salen depende del tamaño de la bolsa y la cantidad a vaporizar. :baba:

A mi me salen con bolsas de 40 cm entre 6 y 8, pero las 2 primeras bolsas son una bomba  :vapea:
de hecho cualquiera no puede con ellas, hay que ser habitual del volcan para no vomitar hasta bilis.  :eek:

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Re:Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« Respuesta #4 en: 11 Mayo, 2012, 16:53:46 »
Quede algo contrariado con esta explicacion,entonces entiendo que vaporizando al 6 aun haciendole 5 bolsas estoy tirando la maria con la mayoria de sus propiedades a la basura?   esta teoria mueve mis cimientos ,es como darle unos lametones a un chuleton y tirarlo a la basura sin consumirlo,es una ejemplo muy burro,lo se jajajaj  :loco2:

A ver que piensa el personal!!!

Saludos

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Re:Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« Respuesta #5 en: 11 Mayo, 2012, 23:51:46 »
Bajo mi ignorancia, creo que todos los estudios sobre el thc, cbd, cdn,..., vamos cannabis en general, llevan algo de razón y parte de imaginación, me explico, hay centros de estudio que intentan obtener datos verídicos pero les hes imposible llevarlos a cabo al 100%,..por,... trabas burocráticas, estudio con animales, muestras, perjuicios, ...de todo,..
Esperemos que por lo menos por beneficios médicos se puedan obtener datos que sea claros, reales y fuera de intereses ni mentalidades, pero a mi parecer esto no puede ser como la religión, según tu fe te reencarnas, vas al cielo o al infierno, con ala, jesús, buda,..., val-halla,.. olimpo..., hay muchas verdades pero datos científicos creo que no tantos y todos deben ir en la misma linea. uf ni caso :bong2:
"Vaporizando que es gerundio"

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Re:Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« Respuesta #6 en: 12 Mayo, 2012, 01:29:41 »
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de hecho cualquiera no puede con ellas, hay que ser habitual del volcan para no vomitar hasta bilis.  :eek:
lástima me ha dado alguna vez de un colega al verlo que no podía más,
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..entonces entiendo que vaporizando al 6 aun haciendole 5 bolsas estoy tirando la maria con la mayoria de sus propiedades a la basura?   esta teoria mueve mis cimientos ,es como darle unos lametones a un chuleton y tirarlo a la basura sin consumirlo,es una ejemplo muy burro,lo se jajajaj...
no tires nada de los vaporizado, guárdalo porque seguro que al 9 y si metes la cazoleta prensada³ , te saca alguna vez de apuro.....




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Re:Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« Respuesta #7 en: 12 Mayo, 2012, 14:48:34 »
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Quede algo contrariado con esta explicacion,entonces entiendo que vaporizando al 6 aun haciendole 5 bolsas estoy tirando la maria con la mayoria de sus propiedades a la basura?   esta teoria mueve mis cimientos ,es como darle unos lametones a un chuleton y tirarlo a la basura sin consumirlo,es una ejemplo muy burro,lo se jajajaj  :loco2:

A ver que piensa el personal!!!

Saludos

Buenas,
Pues según dice el estudio por muchas bolsas que hagas al 6 (190 ºC) aunque saques euforia y efectos psicoactivos, (el pavo del estudio cree que por los aceites esenciales y otros principios liberados como CBN,CBD y algo de THC), es al numero 7 (200 ºC) y despues de sacar unas 6 bolsas cuando aprovechas casi todo de la carga sobre todo el THC que te dejarías al 6. Aunque dice que para sacar más CBD es más apropiado 230 ºC.

En mi opinión creo que no hace falta que pongas el volcano al máximo para aprovecharlo todo por varias razones, primero que pierdes sabor, segundo que es vapor con más benceno y otras sustancias nocivas y tercero porque va a rascar más con lo que lo vas a aguantar menos desperdiciando más al exhalar.

Además como dicen más arriba tendrás que buscar una relación entre tamaño de la bolsa y cantidad que metes en la cazoleta para sacar vapor más o menos diluido con aire.
Saludos  :greet: 
« última modificación: 14 Mayo, 2012, 20:11:53 por Dr. Love »
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Re:Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« Respuesta #8 en: 24 Mayo, 2012, 16:37:11 »
Imposible!!! nunca puse el volcano al 9,trato de sacarle rendimiento al verde pero mi primera prioridad es disfrutar ,claro sin desperdiciar maria a saco,que en comparacion a otros consumidores pues puede que no la exprima pero me quedo lo mejor jejejeje aunque se le puede dar muchas tiradas mas pero prefiero recuperar los sabores y apartar lo que ya no gusta tanto,digamos que el unico lujo que me doy en la vida es paladear y disfrutar de mis yerbas,la verdad no escatimo!!! siempre al 6 y si es ultima hora pues puede que una tiradita al 7 si me quede con ganas de un poquito mas  :devil: y por no picar de nuevo y alargar hasta altas horas de la madrugada  :mal:  pues acabo de esa manera y no simpre  :dientes:

SAludos

P.d mi volcano ya esta viejito,asi que ese 6 en la temperatura sera mas contando que la bomba de menos aire por lo años que lleva trabajando(menuda maquina!!!!!),mas lento al hinchar con lo cual el aire es mas caliente.

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Re:Volcano efficacy tests, by Dr. Hornby
« Respuesta #9 en: 25 Mayo, 2012, 02:21:13 »
Coincido contigo, a mi me va más al 6 o al 7 y aunque consuma vegetal con otros vapos igual de 185 a 200ºC mejor más sabor, rasca menos y más activo. Pero cada cual con sus gustos y además mejor vapor a 230 que combustión, yo al menos lo probé más de una vez  :volcan2:.

 
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